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tax implications?

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dabuttery
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Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 64
Location/Time Bank: Aurora, CO

PostDated: Fri Sep 15, 2006 2:22 pm    Subject: tax implications? Reply with quote
What are the tax implications in exchanging time dollars for material goods?

Does the $ value of the goods have to be declared as income by the person who received it?

Does the $ value of the goods have to be listed as sales by the vendor, who would then owe taxes on it?
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brett@koalamotorsport.com



Joined: 14 Mar 2009
Posts: 3

PostDated: Sun Mar 22, 2009 9:55 pm    Subject: Re: tax implications? Reply with quote
dabuttery wrote:
What are the tax implications in exchanging time dollars for material goods?

Does the $ value of the goods have to be declared as income by the person who received it?

Does the $ value of the goods have to be listed as sales by the vendor, who would then owe taxes on it?


Interesting that 2.5 years later, this question hasn't been answered.

A quick word of warning to anyone that has any professional skill whatsoever.
RUN

If Timebank hasn't been able to answer a simple tax question in the last 2 years, then they are not going to be able to help with your defense against the IRS when the time comes.

Wonderful ideal in theory. But impossible in reality. Want to help out in your community, do it by yourself, not through a trackable resource like this.

Brett
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TonyB



Joined: 17 Sep 2007
Posts: 91
Location/Time Bank: N.E. Ohio

PostDated: Sun Mar 22, 2009 11:34 pm    Subject: Re: tax implications? Reply with quote
Hi Brett and dabuttery,

All Time Banks should follow the requirements of the IRS as tax exempt organizations, under the 501 (c) 3 regulations.

In doing so a time Bank member never under any circumstances exchanges Time Credits (so called time dollars) for material goods. Time Banks are service exchange communities, one hour of someone's time in exchange for an hour of another's time. There are no tax implications regarding the exchange of an hour for an hour.

The answer to the second and third question and the passing of 2.5 years with no answer is now answered by the facts stated above.

Cheers,
Tony


Last edited by TonyB on Mon Mar 23, 2009 1:12 am; edited 1 time in total
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brett@koalamotorsport.com



Joined: 14 Mar 2009
Posts: 3

PostDated: Sun Mar 22, 2009 11:51 pm    Subject: Re: tax implications? Reply with quote
TonyB wrote:
Hi Brett and dabuttery,

All Time Banks should follow the requirements of the IRS as tax exempt organizations, under the 501 (c) 3 regulations.

In doing so a time Bank member never under any circumstances exchanges Time Credits (so called time dollars) for material goods. Time Banks are service exchange communities, one hour of someone's time in exchange for an hour of another's time. There are no tax implications regarding the exchange of an hour for an hour.

The answer to the second and third question and the passing of 2.5 years with now answer is now answered by the facts stated above.

Cheers,
Tony


Material goods have nothing to do with taxable income.

If a plumber connects a pipe for you, he charges you for his time, plus any materials. If a carpenter hammers a nail for you, he charges you for his time, plus any materials.

If a plumber fixes a pipe for a carpenter who hammers a nail in return, that's taxable income for both parties. Not because of the pipe, or the nail, but because of the time.

It's not a mystery. It has nothing to do with tangible goods, it's time. Time is what most people bill, regardless of occupation. There may be materials billed also, but generally, unless you walk into a store and pull something from the shelf, you are purchasing TIME and materials.

If a landscaper mows the lawn of a gas station owner in return for gasoline, both ends of the 'agreement' are taxable "sales".

I'm all for helping out in the community, but I think this Time Bank thing is opening a lot of people up for a lot of trouble if thought is not put into what the liabilities are.

Tax law is quite complete in this arena. If a professional trades his services (TIME) for some other professional's service (TIME) then it's taxable. If a plumber mows your lawn in return for interior decorating help, that's not taxable. Get the point?

My entire point is that "timebank" is doing nothing to warn their 'contributors' of this issue, and most people who would be inclined to offer contributions would naturally offer their primary skills. For example, I run an auto repair shop. So my natural inclination is to offer a trade of mechanic's repair labour hours, in order to obtain something I need, like landscaping help.

The very nature of this "time bank" scheme would put a professional landscaper in touch with me to trade landscaping labour on my property with mechanical labour to maintain his truck fleet.
That puts both of us at risk of falling foul of the IRS, because in both cases, we are bypassing the reporting of taxable income.

Brett
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Jen Moore
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Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Posts: 111
Location/Time Bank: Washington, DC

PostDated: Tue Mar 24, 2009 7:07 am    Subject: Reply with quote
Hi, Brett - it's really important to clear this up, because we've worked hard to make sure that Time Dollars are exempt from taxation and want to keep it that way.

The three rules a Time Bank must follow in order to maintain the tax-exempt status of the Time Dollars are:
1. All exchanges must be one to one - an hour for an hour, regardless of the service, NO EXCEPTIONS!
2. Members should have only a moral obligation to participate in making exchanges in the Time Bank. If someone performs a service, there is no guarantee that they will receive a service in exchange.
3. The purpose of the Time Bank should be charitable (not for profit).

Why does this work? Well, in a regular barter or cash economy, you are 100% right in saying that services are taxable. That's because there is still a relative market value to the service, and you usually have to give something in order to receive something. So, if you want that plumber to come spend two hours at your house, you'd better give her something worth her time. If she would normally earn $100 for those two hours, then you have to provide $100 worth of goods or services to get the plumber.

This is absolutely not the case in a Time Bank. In the same example, to have the plumber come to your house for two hours, there is nothing you need to do but ask. She comes, fixes your pipe, and two Time Dollars are deducted from your account. Later, if you decide to earn those two Time Dollars back, you can do it anyway you like - babysitting for two hours for Bob, or walking dogs for a few afternoons for Jane and Roy, or applying your knowledge of tax law to a thorny tax return for Ellie. You are under no obligation to return the favor to the plumber, or to anyone else.

If there are two things that the IRS does not understand, it's morality and equality. Smile

As far as goods are concerned, it is possible, but exceedingly difficult, to exchange goods in a Time Bank. You can only spend Time Dollars on stuff if it can be valued in terms of time. So, for example, if it took me two hours to crochet a hat, I can offer it for two Time Dollars. If you attend a movie that is 3 hours long, the theater could charge 3 Time Dollars. Other things, like manufactured items and agricultural products, would be hard to trade within the Time Dollar system.

At least one Time Bank has solved this problem by creating an incentive program that parrallels the Time Bank. For a certain number of exchanges, a person earns a token. The tokens accumulated can be spent on items in the Time Bank's store. Notice I said for a certain number of exchanges - not hours! And they have to be a combination of gives and receives.

I hope that answers your question thoroughly! The IRS rulings that are out there are local, and not national, but as long as everyone is following the same guidelines, there shouldn't be any trouble.
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Edgar Cahn



Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 1

PostDated: Fri Apr 10, 2009 10:33 am    Subject: IRS: Time Banking is Not Commercial Barter Reply with quote
IRS: Time Banking is Not Commercial Barter Edgar Cahn

Beginning in 1985, the US IRS has ruled that Time Banking programs are not “barter organizations” and that Time Dollars are not taxable.

The first ruling, made by a regional office of the IRS in 1985, involved the state-sponsored program operated in Missouri, said that "there will be no taxable consequences" to volunteers who earn credits as ‘reimbursement’ for services rendered. This ruling focused on the charitable nature of the organization, the charitable class served by the program, the fact that the organization was not a commercial for-profit barter club and that any qualifying person would receive such services without regard to cost.

The second was a private ruling covering a program set up to generate “service credit” exchanges among members. The central reason given for the ruling was that the credits were used primarily to motivate members and that no ‘contractual rights’ arose by owing them. The ruling noted that all hours were valued as equal, regardless of market value, and that the primary purpose of the credits was clearly to motivate members. Moral persuasion was the only means of enforcing a debt.

Charitable purposes include the relief of poverty, the advancement of education or religion, the promotion of health, governmental or municipal purposes, and other purposes the achievement of which are beneficial to the community.

The IRS distinguished time money from commercial barter clubs on the following grounds:
• Absence of a commission.
• Cash cannot be used to buy credits or eliminate a debt.
• The predominance of ‘like-for-like’ services in the exchange.
• The equal valuation given to all hours.

There can be no guarantee that the IRS will not reconsider its position at some future time. All rulings apply only to the particular party who applies for the ruling and state that they cannot be used or cited as precedent. Nonetheless, the rationale for the decisions involve basic principles which are consistently invoked in subsequent “individual” rulings.

We believe that the non-contractual nature of the exchanges, the specific charitable purposes pursued, the valuing of all hours equally, the potential savings to the taxpayer and the focus of the program on rebuilding family, neighborhood and community make it unlikely that Time Dollars will be treated as “taxable income” or that local Time Banks will be treated as commercial barter exchanges.

The following excerpts from a 1995 ruling illustrate the reasoning found persuasive by the IRS:
Section 6045(c)(3) of the Code defines the term “barter exchange” as any organization of members providing property or services who jointly contract to trade or barter such property or services.

Section 1.6045-1(a)(4) of the Income Tax Regulations states that the term “barter exchange” means any person with members of clients that contract with each other or with such person to trade or barter property or services either directly or through such person. The term does not include arrangements that provide solely for the informal exchange of similar services on a noncommercial basis.

As explained below, we conclude that X is not a barter exchange within the meaning of section 6045(c)(3) because X’s operations provide a means for the informal exchange of similar services on a noncommercial basis and do not result in the creation of contractual rights and obligations among members (or between members and X) for the exchange of property or services.

Other elements to be considered in determining whether an organization is a barter exchange are whether services are exchanged on a commercial or noncommercial basis and whether the exchange of services is formal or informal. See section 1.6045-1(a)(4). The application of these criteria to X is discussed below.

X facilitates the exchanges of services on a noncommercial basis as evidenced by the following considerations. First, all services receive a point value based solely on the number of hours of service provided without regard to the type of service. Second, a member who has performed services does not thereby have a contractual right to receive any services from X or from X’s members. Third, the organization does not place any limits on when services must be received. Thus, there could be a gap of several years between the time when a member provides services and the time when the member first receives services. Fourth, a member cannot assign (except to family or household m embers) the points that he or she has accumulated for services performed. Fifth, X is a community organization whose membership consists primarily of individuals living in the Y area. Sixth, X does not charge a fee for participation or membership in the program. Seventh, the records maintained by X show significant disparities in members’ accounts as to the number of hours of services provided and the number of hours of services received. Some members typically receive many more hours of services than they provide, while other members – who are apparently motivated by a desire to serve the community – typically provide many more hours of services than they received. Based on X’s records as of July, 1995, there were at that time approximately __ active participants over 25 percent of which have performed services but have not received any services in return.

The informal nature of the exchange of services is also evident. X simply links members in need of services with other m embers who are potential providers of services. It is up to the members, rather than X, to determine whether any services will be performed, to determine the time and place for performance of the services, and to ensure that the services are satisfactorily performed. Also, X does not have any responsibility for crediting the account of the service provider or debiting the account of the service recipient unless a member first contacts X and indicates the number of hours of service provided. Moreover, either member (the service provider or the service recipient) can contact X to indicate the number of hours of service provided, and this information may be provided to X informally through a phone call or postcard.

Section 6045. Returns of Brokers - Private letter Ruling
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Julie Lee



Joined: 02 Jun 2008
Posts: 25
Location/Time Bank: New Zealand

PostDated: Mon Dec 28, 2009 4:26 pm    Subject: Reply with quote
As far as goods are concerned, it is possible, but exceedingly difficult, to exchange goods in a Time Bank. You can only spend Time Dollars on stuff if it can be valued in terms of time. So, for example, if it took me two hours to crochet a hat, I can offer it for two Time Dollars. If you attend a movie that is 3 hours long, the theater could charge 3 Time Dollars. Other things, like manufactured items and agricultural products, would be hard to trade within the Time Dollar system.

Hello there
Tax implication is a subject close to our hearts here in New Zealand, at the present time. Time Banks are increasing in numbers here now, and here in Lyttleton (NZ's first TB) we are working on an umbrella organisation for New Zealand Time Banks (Time Bank Aotearoa New Zealand). A VERY important component of this is how we work with our Govt. Tax Department, the Inland Revenue Department (IRD). Lyttelton TB is working closely with East Bay TB (NZ's 2nd TB) to achieve a positive outcome with IRD. Hence, this research on this forum.

I have copied in Jen's comments above. I would love some feedback on one of the processes we have put in place here. Becoming very popular within our TB is the exchange of second hand goods. Members are giving stuff away via the free cycling category of community weaver. Our policy for this is that members get one hour, for all and any exchanges in respect of goods. We felt that members could claim time for the time spent in say, cleaning / organising / dropping off the good(s) to the member. It then got a little tricky because sometimes the exchagne was only 5mins. Hence, our Advisory Group put a blanket one hour around exchanges related to goods. This is currently our practice, but after looking through some of the information surrounding tax I am wondering if we should revisit this?

Many thanks in advance for any thoughts.
Jules
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Julie Lee



Joined: 02 Jun 2008
Posts: 25
Location/Time Bank: New Zealand

PostDated: Mon Dec 28, 2009 4:27 pm    Subject: Reply with quote
As far as goods are concerned, it is possible, but exceedingly difficult, to exchange goods in a Time Bank. You can only spend Time Dollars on stuff if it can be valued in terms of time. So, for example, if it took me two hours to crochet a hat, I can offer it for two Time Dollars. If you attend a movie that is 3 hours long, the theater could charge 3 Time Dollars. Other things, like manufactured items and agricultural products, would be hard to trade within the Time Dollar system.

Hello there
Tax implication is a subject close to our hearts here in New Zealand, at the present time. Time Banks are increasing in numbers here now, and here in Lyttleton (NZ's first TB) we are working on an umbrella organisation for New Zealand Time Banks (Time Bank Aotearoa New Zealand). A VERY important component of this is how we work with our Govt. Tax Department, the Inland Revenue Department (IRD). Lyttelton TB is working closely with East Bay TB (NZ's 2nd TB) to achieve a positive outcome with IRD. Hence, this research on this forum.

I have copied in Jen's comments above. I would love some feedback on one of the processes we have put in place here. Becoming very popular within our TB is the exchange of second hand goods. Members are giving stuff away via the free cycling category of community weaver. Our policy for this is that members get one hour, for all and any exchanges in respect of goods. We felt that members could claim time for the time spent in say, cleaning / organising / dropping off the good(s) to the member. It then got a little tricky because sometimes the exchagne was only 5mins. Hence, our Advisory Group put a blanket one hour around exchanges related to goods. This is currently our practice, but after looking through some of the information surrounding tax I am wondering if we should revisit this?

Many thanks in advance for any thoughts.
Jules
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Jen Moore
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Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Posts: 111
Location/Time Bank: Washington, DC

PostDated: Tue Feb 02, 2010 12:02 pm    Subject: Reply with quote
Hi, Julie!

Sorry for the delayed response.

One TimeBank in west Virginia set up an incentive program, whereby members earned "tokens" for so many hours of exchanges - let's say, two hours given and three hours received. Then they could spend their earned tokens on items donated to a Time Dollar Store. That way, people could get things by participating in the Time Bank - it's a reward, but it doesn't put a value on the Time Dollar. It is a nice solution, because it helps with multiple issues at once in the TimeBank - people needing things, and low participation in the TimeBank. Here's a link to an article about them:

http://www.timebanks.org/documents/2008N2NETransformationStation.pdf

The Dane County TimeBank also launched a Time Dollar Store in 2008, where donated items can be purchased for Time Dollars. My understanding is that items are priced almost arbitrarily, or in broad categories, so that the it would be impossible to assign a market value to the Time Dollars. Here's an article from their website:

http://www.madison.com/wsj/mad/top/316008

Here's another guide that was helpfully reposted by Tony Budak in Ohio:

http://forums.timebanks.org/viewtopic.php?t=416

It seems to me that making everything worth one Hour could be ok, since some of the things would be worth a lot more than others, thus making it difficult to say, "OH, ok, so a Time Dollar is worth $10 in the marketplace." That's really what we're trying to avoid. Thoughts from others?
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oliver6419
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PostDated: Thu Jun 24, 2010 10:00 pm    Subject: Reply with quote
Tax Implications of Owning Bond Funds and Individual Bonds General Tax Differences From a tax standpoint, the main differences between bond funds and individual bonds is: How interest income is received and how capital gains are realized and/or distributed. A capital gain or loss may be recognized on a bond fund.
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dewms



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PostDated: Fri Jun 25, 2010 10:56 am    Subject: and this relates how? Reply with quote
How do bond funds relate to timebanking?
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ccarltonn45
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PostDated: Wed Jul 21, 2010 8:09 pm    Subject: Reply with quote
If you are considering a real estate short sale of your home, you should be aware that you may receive a form 1099-C for the amount of the lender's losses. This is considered loan forgiveness in the eyes of the IRS.
If you have other assets such as saving and you are not insolvent, you may end up being responsible to pay ordinary
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TonyB



Joined: 17 Sep 2007
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Location/Time Bank: N.E. Ohio

PostDated: Wed Jul 21, 2010 8:37 pm    Subject: Keep to the subject matter of this forums Reply with quote
These last three post are not in line with the subject being considered.

These posted questions are "OFF TOPIC". Please keep to the subject under discussion, and follow along by staying on topic when you post a question or comment.
Confused
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williams8899



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PostDated: Fri Jul 30, 2010 3:10 am    Subject: Reply with quote
Tax Implications of Owning Bond Funds and Individual Bonds General Tax Differences

From a tax standpoint, the main differences between bond funds and individual bonds is: How interest income is received and how capital gains are realized and/or distributed.

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